I had a fantastic time giving two public lectures in Pakistan on this trip (I'm in Rawalpindi/Islamabad for another week before getting back to the US). I wasn't sure what kind of reaction I will get while talking about cosmology (and also briefly about evolution) - but the reaction has mostly been quite positive and with lot of interaction with the audience at the end. The reaction from the audience was quite different at two places. The first lecture was organized by the Physics Club at Quaid-e-Azam University (QAU) in Islamabad (thanks Zahid) and the questions were heavily focused on cosmology, nature of time, multiverses, etc. The issue of the origin of life was brought up, but the discussion stayed within the confines of our scientific understanding of the topic. The level of questions was very good and surprising to me, evolution was not really brought up in Q&A - perhaps a reflection of audience predisposition towards physics.
The talk at Karachi was a totally different experience. First of all, the Karachi talk was part of Science ka Adda (Karachi's version of Cafe Scientifique) and was held at a coffee shop (The Second Floor) that also acts as a base for non-profit work (PeaceNiche), holds regular screening of documentaries (it showed God on the Brain recently), provides space for art exhibitions, and even hosts small concerts (check out glimpses of T2F). So indeed, I was very excited to give a public lecture there (Thanks Sabeen for organizing it).
The focus of questions here was more on science and religion conflict (or at least on the possibility of conflict). The point of my talk was that Big Bang, evolution, origin of life questions etc. are descriptions of physical phenomena irrespective of one's belief. The question of the ultimate origins (First Cause) is dependent on faith - whether one believes that physical laws have been put in place by God or by no one (also a faith statement). However, we should always seek natural causes when seeking an explanation for all physical events (methodological naturalism). Many of the questions were accurately focused on the boundary between known and unknown and how to approach science when we get to that point - and what to do when religion comes in conflict with known explanations for science. A few people raised strong objections to evolution (with the usual - that "it is only a theory"), but the over all discourse remained very civil and productive (as can be seen from the post Q&A discussions on the right - picture from T2F).
But the main point is that we can talk and discuss in public these sensitive topics in Pakistan (ok - at least at universities and coffee shops). Not everyone will agree with the conclusions - but a dialogue about these topics is crucial.
What is Irtiqa?
Irtiqa is Salman Hameed's blog. A few years ago (before Facebook killed many of the blogs), it used to track stories of science & religion, especially those related to Muslim societies. That is still one of its foci, but now it dovetails more of Salman's interests including film, astronomy, science fiction, and science outreach in both Pakistan and the US.
Irtiqa literally means evolution in Urdu. But it does not imply only biological evolution. Instead, it is an all encompassing word used for evolution of the universe, biological evolution, and also for biological/human development. While it has created confusion in debates over biological evolution in South Asia, it provides a nice integrative name for this blog. For further information, contact Salman Hameed.
The blog banner is designed by Muhammad Aurangzeb Ahmad. You can find all his creative endeavors at Orangie.
Salman Hameed
Salman is an astronomer and Associate Professor of Integrated Science & Humanities at Hampshire College, Massachusetts. Currently, he is working on understanding the rise of creationism in contemporary Islamic world and how Muslims view the relationship between science & religion. He is also working with historian Tracy Leavelle at Creighton University to analyze reconciliation efforts between astronomers and Native Hawaiians over telescopes on top of sacred Mauna Kea in Hawaii. He teaches “History and Philosophy of Science & Religion” with philosopher Laura Sizer, and “Science in the Islamic World”, both at Hampshire College. Salman and Laura Sizer are also responsible for the ongoing Hampshire College Lecture Series on Science & Religion, and you can find videos of all these lectures below. Contact information here.
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Blog Archive
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- Cliodynamics and the science of history
- Life and death of a star in six minutes
- Who can go to heaven?
- God and philosophers III: The Fine-tuning Argument
- God and philosophers II: The Design Argument
- God and philosophers I: The Ontological Argument
- A Christmas lecture by Carl Sagan
- Internet and the spread of Islamic Creationism
- History, archaeology and Biblical stories
- Hecht on doubt
- Harun Yahya and the arts
- Video: Paul Davies - Origin of the Laws of Physics
- Science paper on Islamic Creationism
- Back to the US Sunday night
- Interview with New Scientist on Islamic Creationism
- Ghamidi on Islam and evolution
- Starbucks, churches, and jihadis
- Talking about "origins" in Pakistan
- Genes tracing Jewish and Muslim conversion in Spain
- Born creationists
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December
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13 comments:
It was indeed a nice lecture. I really liked the details you presented about Big Bang and that Super Turtle concept was great. I hope we would see you more often whenever you visit Pakistan again.
Hey Salman, I'm glad to hear your trip is going smoothly and that your talks were well-received ... was there any audio or video recording?
Thanks Atif and I will try to give a talk at T2F and QAU again on my next visit also.
Nizam - yes, it was being recorded. I will let you know if they put it online.
Hi Salman,
The presentation was great! would like to see more of these so please keep coming back here :)
Hey, where can we find the Saturn picture you showed in your presentation? I would like to make it my desktop wallpaper, just to keep things in perspective :)
Hello Salman Sb,
Its good to know that the lectures were well recieved. I wonder if we can get to see these lectures on youtube or vidpk (paki version of youtube)? I really miss these...
I totaly agree w you, that we should discuss n debate such topics. Only then we would b able to bring positive change in people 's thinking towards evolution n origin.
Cheers
Farhan,
The Saturn image can be found at:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061016.html
In fact, I would suggest you bookmark "Astronomy Picture of the Day" any way. :)
Ali: I will let you know when its online. Here is a story from The News covering the lecture:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=150850
It was a great gathering all together. I loved the former part of the presentation but I do think that Hameed spoke less about the topic itself saying that merging religion and science together wouldn't be a cool idea.
As for evolution, I can't digest the statement that we were evolved from a pair of apes and developed into such tremendously 'refined' creatures like human beings. Not using any bloody religion, it just doesn't match how my brain works. Plus, what could be the answer to the 'undeveloped' generation of apes that is around us? The match of DNA is a good statement so to sound but basing that to be the descent of the human race - not so cool.
Plus, saying that the theory of evolution is taken as valid as the theory of gravity is illogical too because there are certainly many disagreements given out by scientists against the theory of evolution. There might be some given against that of gravity as well but at least as Hameed said it's 99.99999% 'taken' valid, which isn't so in the case of the theory of evolution.
PS. That comes from the girl who continually called you "professor" and asked ridiculous deal of questions.
Regards.
ah..people really missed you here at Lahore this time :( Anyways, it was nice meeting you at Islamabad though.
Hira, we did not evolve from apes; infact we (apes and human) had a common ancestor probably 8 million years ago.
For millions of years, many branches of homonids evolved; only one is surviving today.
I talked in reference to the theory of evolution in which ape's DNA is given as a rationale for it being the medium of human evolution. Apes and us thus having a common ancestor is very apparent.
Not using any bloody religion, it just doesn't match how my brain works.
Hira - Oh sure. There are many things that are difficult to comprehend - for example the incredible age of the universe (13.7 billion years) or even the age of the Earth (4.5 billion years). As humans, we have a really hard time to fathom this really long passage of time. But we know from various means that this is indeed the case (yes, we really know the age of the Earth to a high degree of accuracy). This is the descriptive process - independent of whether one likes it or not.
In the same way, evolution simply explains the diversity of life on Earth - irrespective of whether one likes the idea of being related to jelly fish or not. For me, it is absolutely phenomenal that simple life forms can produce such enormous diversity (given 4.5 billion years!!), including humans, and that we have an intimate connection with all other beings on the planet (the star fish, the zebra, the whale - not directly - but we share a common ancestor long time back).
Plus, what could be the answer to the 'undeveloped' generation of apes that is around us?
As Umair pointed out, we did not descent from apes (or monkeys) as is usually portrayed. We had a common ancestor 8-9 million years ago. Some apes are not "underdeveloped" at all. Remember evolution is not a ladder with humans on top. Evolution is better visualized as a branching tree with humans on one branch, apes on another. Jelly fish also occupy another branch - but they are further away from us than the apes.
Look forward to your next talk.
I haven't been able to find where Islam stands on evolution, is it a similar stance to the one taken by the Christian creationists?
I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction?
Thank you and keep up the good work
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